We have manufactured some lowers to accept the Ferret and Safe Harbor 50 BMG uppers in order to make these non restricted. The Uppers require modification that is non reverseable to make them fit our lower. We submitted a finished unit to the RCMP lab and they determined that our lower, which has a model and serial number was NOT a lower, but rather a trigger group that does not require registering.
So now we are in a position of supplying fully operational 50 BMG rifles that are non registerable.
I am EXTREMELY hesitant to sell 1 for fear t5hat someone will get checked for registration and then the legal system will be tested at my expense.
For legislation that was "not going to interfere with business" guess what, IT IS interferring with business!!
Showing posts with label court case. Show all posts
Showing posts with label court case. Show all posts
Thursday, October 28, 2010
If an officer thinks you are breaking the law you are breaking the law!
If an officer thinks you are breaking the law you are breaking the law!
A couple of my shooting buddies got in a pile of crap because of a bunch of shotgun hulls rolling around the back of their pickup. A cop spotted them at a road check and six hours of later they were on their way. We know that shotgun hulls are not ammunition but not everyone knows that.
There is now a Policy in BC that firearms are to be seized whenever there is a domestic dispute.
The police seize under the public safety laws. Note that there is usually no 'hot pursuit' and a warrant is required to enter a private residence unless there is immanent danger.
This policy, of course, won't hold up in court.
Now the nightmare.
Man gets in shouting match with teenage son
Nosey neighbor calls cops.
Cops show up and question parents and kids separately.
Cops ask to see his guns
WTF he asks. There was no fight. Wife verifies this.
Cops seize guns as a matter public safety.
Oops - pistols do not have trigger locks (pistols in a vault)
Unsafe storage charge.
Loose ammo in drawer
Unsafe storage charge
...... 8 BS charges later guns are gone
He gets lawyer next day finds out guns will be destroyed in 60 days
45 days later he gets a hearing
Destruction stayed until trial.
14 MONTHS!!! later the trial is delayed again
The crown offers to stay all charges but one unsafe storage charge. His record will be cleared after 6 months probation, community service and retake the safety courses. This is upon approval from the judge of course.
Lawyer recommends that he take the deal as the trial costs will get 'prohibitive'
2 MONTHS later this mess gets before the judge.
The judge allows for the guns to be released to me for safe keeping until his probation is over. Caveat - I have 60 days to get transfer the guns
Next day I go to the RCMP to initiate the transfers.
Here's where my involvement begins
All of his guns were 'stored' in a plastic garbage can.
Three guns were re-registered with the wrong serial number - won't transfer
Two semi-auto guns re-registered as bolt action - won't transfer
One pump action shotgun re-registered with wrong barrel length and classification (I guess phosphate=military=restricted) - won't transfer
One Bolt action with barrel length off by over an inch - won't transfer
I should add that the exhibits officer was beside himself as this makes his life miserable. The irony is that the Certs were seized along with the guns but the officer decided to re-verify rather than look up the cert info.
The rest of the guns went off without a hitch.
57! days later the paperwork came through and I got the guns released to me.
He gets his guns back in January 2010 (if the paperwork shows up).
So no laws broken but policy cost my friend thousands in legal fees and me couple hundred man hours of paperwork.
The police were going to seize his guns no matter what, but the BS charges came along because he was messy/didn't have a copy of the regs handy.
Without the BS charges this process would have taken a mere 6 months! (I've done this a few times)
I keep copies of the RCMP regulation pamphlets in my car and in my vaults. And I keep all of my ammo neatly stored on shelves and reloads in plastic ziplock bags which I 'file' in cardboard boxes.
I take my loose ammo to the range in a shooters bag with a reg pamphlet in the side pocket.
Never try to bash a cop over the head with the law. Assist his decisions with RCMP/CFC documentation.
.
The RCMP can enter directly into the Reg database.
This created two records for the same gun. The original (correct) record is marked as cancelled so the new (incorrect) record is used for the transfer.
The exhibits officer and I verify the firearm and fill out the form. If the info does not match what the police officer entered the transfer won't go through. The incorrect record has to be fixed and getting a reg. cert changed is not easy.
I'm just glad I was not involved in clearing the Non-restricted, full auto, .308cal Jumble Enfield Mk 111 with no serial number [Which of course can not exist -- lots of errors there].
A couple of my shooting buddies got in a pile of crap because of a bunch of shotgun hulls rolling around the back of their pickup. A cop spotted them at a road check and six hours of later they were on their way. We know that shotgun hulls are not ammunition but not everyone knows that.
There is now a Policy in BC that firearms are to be seized whenever there is a domestic dispute.
The police seize under the public safety laws. Note that there is usually no 'hot pursuit' and a warrant is required to enter a private residence unless there is immanent danger.
This policy, of course, won't hold up in court.
Now the nightmare.
Man gets in shouting match with teenage son
Nosey neighbor calls cops.
Cops show up and question parents and kids separately.
Cops ask to see his guns
WTF he asks. There was no fight. Wife verifies this.
Cops seize guns as a matter public safety.
Oops - pistols do not have trigger locks (pistols in a vault)
Unsafe storage charge.
Loose ammo in drawer
Unsafe storage charge
...... 8 BS charges later guns are gone
He gets lawyer next day finds out guns will be destroyed in 60 days
45 days later he gets a hearing
Destruction stayed until trial.
14 MONTHS!!! later the trial is delayed again
The crown offers to stay all charges but one unsafe storage charge. His record will be cleared after 6 months probation, community service and retake the safety courses. This is upon approval from the judge of course.
Lawyer recommends that he take the deal as the trial costs will get 'prohibitive'
2 MONTHS later this mess gets before the judge.
The judge allows for the guns to be released to me for safe keeping until his probation is over. Caveat - I have 60 days to get transfer the guns
Next day I go to the RCMP to initiate the transfers.
Here's where my involvement begins
All of his guns were 'stored' in a plastic garbage can.
Three guns were re-registered with the wrong serial number - won't transfer
Two semi-auto guns re-registered as bolt action - won't transfer
One pump action shotgun re-registered with wrong barrel length and classification (I guess phosphate=military=restricted) - won't transfer
One Bolt action with barrel length off by over an inch - won't transfer
I should add that the exhibits officer was beside himself as this makes his life miserable. The irony is that the Certs were seized along with the guns but the officer decided to re-verify rather than look up the cert info.
The rest of the guns went off without a hitch.
57! days later the paperwork came through and I got the guns released to me.
He gets his guns back in January 2010 (if the paperwork shows up).
So no laws broken but policy cost my friend thousands in legal fees and me couple hundred man hours of paperwork.
The police were going to seize his guns no matter what, but the BS charges came along because he was messy/didn't have a copy of the regs handy.
Without the BS charges this process would have taken a mere 6 months! (I've done this a few times)
I keep copies of the RCMP regulation pamphlets in my car and in my vaults. And I keep all of my ammo neatly stored on shelves and reloads in plastic ziplock bags which I 'file' in cardboard boxes.
I take my loose ammo to the range in a shooters bag with a reg pamphlet in the side pocket.
Never try to bash a cop over the head with the law. Assist his decisions with RCMP/CFC documentation.
.
The RCMP can enter directly into the Reg database.
This created two records for the same gun. The original (correct) record is marked as cancelled so the new (incorrect) record is used for the transfer.
The exhibits officer and I verify the firearm and fill out the form. If the info does not match what the police officer entered the transfer won't go through. The incorrect record has to be fixed and getting a reg. cert changed is not easy.
I'm just glad I was not involved in clearing the Non-restricted, full auto, .308cal Jumble Enfield Mk 111 with no serial number [Which of course can not exist -- lots of errors there].
It's only $60 and a bit of paperwork......wrong!
STATEMENT: It's only $60 and a bit of paperwork. This is not a hardship on firearms owners.
ANSWER:
Quebec 1 Year & 4 Months on processing Handgun Request..., and counting....
- In February of 2008 a Handgun was ordered from Marstar.
- In May of 2008 the delay was "the Club Renewal not received"
- DELAY ( No Contact - Mail Box Full, messages left)
- In June 2008 Canadian Firearms Center (Quebec) says the Quebec Firearms Officer is in Ottawa!?
- In January 2009 the delay was an old contact that said "NO"
- In January 2009 everything was OK
- DELAY ( No Contact - Mail Box Full, left messages)
- In June 2009 Canadian Firearms Center (Quebec) hangs up phone when asking for Firearms Officer.
- In June 2009 Canadian Firearms Center agrees to contact Quebec Firearms Officer.
This is an example of the cost of the Gun Registry...
Why is it that these workers are ignorant and know nothing?!?!
Why is it that the person that has your file is the only one you can talk to?!?!
Why is their mailbox full and they never call back?
- NO ANSWERS -
Consider the case of Constable Mark Smith of the St. John, New Brunswick Police Department. In 1991, Constable Smith bought a Browning Hi Power from a gun store. During 1992 he got several 'permits to transport' for competitions outside New Brunswick. In 1993 he traded the gun in to a different store. The following year, the RCMP noticed there was no registration certificate number on one of the 1992 transport permits. They checked with FRAS, (the RCMP's restricted weapons database) which erroneously reported the gun had never been registered. Constable Smith was charged with possession of an unregistered restricted weapon, and suspended from his job.
During his trial, Constable Smith fortunately had a change of luck. A reference to his registration was discovered in a file ledger at the local police station, and he was acquitted. This case has a happy ending, but it serves to illustrate the impossible position a gun owner might find himself in. What would have happened had this ledger record not been uncovered? In all likelihood, Constable Smith would have been convicted, the same as any gun owner who is unable to prove his innocence.
ANSWER:
Quebec 1 Year & 4 Months on processing Handgun Request..., and counting....
- In February of 2008 a Handgun was ordered from Marstar.
- In May of 2008 the delay was "the Club Renewal not received"
- DELAY ( No Contact - Mail Box Full, messages left)
- In June 2008 Canadian Firearms Center (Quebec) says the Quebec Firearms Officer is in Ottawa!?
- In January 2009 the delay was an old contact that said "NO"
- In January 2009 everything was OK
- DELAY ( No Contact - Mail Box Full, left messages)
- In June 2009 Canadian Firearms Center (Quebec) hangs up phone when asking for Firearms Officer.
- In June 2009 Canadian Firearms Center agrees to contact Quebec Firearms Officer.
This is an example of the cost of the Gun Registry...
Why is it that these workers are ignorant and know nothing?!?!
Why is it that the person that has your file is the only one you can talk to?!?!
Why is their mailbox full and they never call back?
- NO ANSWERS -
Consider the case of Constable Mark Smith of the St. John, New Brunswick Police Department. In 1991, Constable Smith bought a Browning Hi Power from a gun store. During 1992 he got several 'permits to transport' for competitions outside New Brunswick. In 1993 he traded the gun in to a different store. The following year, the RCMP noticed there was no registration certificate number on one of the 1992 transport permits. They checked with FRAS, (the RCMP's restricted weapons database) which erroneously reported the gun had never been registered. Constable Smith was charged with possession of an unregistered restricted weapon, and suspended from his job.
During his trial, Constable Smith fortunately had a change of luck. A reference to his registration was discovered in a file ledger at the local police station, and he was acquitted. This case has a happy ending, but it serves to illustrate the impossible position a gun owner might find himself in. What would have happened had this ledger record not been uncovered? In all likelihood, Constable Smith would have been convicted, the same as any gun owner who is unable to prove his innocence.
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